2027: South should complete eight years as president, says Moro

• Moro

The People’s Democratic Party (PDP) has been hit by a series of crises, leading to the resignations of prominent chieftains. Last week, its 2023 presidential candidate, former Vice President Atiku Abubakar, tendered his resignation letter, citing deep frustrations with internal party democracy. In this interview monitored by Assistant Editor EMMANUEL BADEJO, Senate Minority Leader Abba Moro, who alleged that those leaving the party were part of the problem, insisted that the North cannot produce a president until 2031.

Did you ever envisage that Atiku Abubakar was going to leave the PDP?

Well, I never thought that he would leave PDP, but if you recall very succinctly, even scholars of politics say politics is the act of the possible. Therefore, everything is possible in politics. And so, if Atiku Abubakar saw other formations and decided to deal with the PDP, and he has decided to go away from the PDP, like I said, in a crisis situation of this nature, anything is possible. And from what has happened, certainly anything is possible. And I can tell you this, for quite some time, quite frankly, for those of us in the PDP, we knew quite all right that Alhaji Atiku Abubakar was on his way out of the party, because for quite some time now, he has not been attending the activities of the PDP.

So, you were not blindsided about this?

No, no, no, no, no. I can tell you that any PDP member who has been very active in attending functions of the PDP, especially NEC, BoT, caucus and the rest of them, will tell you that for some months now, he has been away from the party.

What does this say about the internal workings of your party, losing a man who was the face of the party in 2019, and in 2023, isn’t the PDP finished?

The party certainly is not finished, I can assure you that. But definitely for a man of Atiku Abubakar’s stature to leave the PDP, that is supposed to be the main opposition party in the country today, certainly speaks volumes. But I have said this before, and I keep saying that the PDP is not about one or two persons. The PDP is about its members. And as people walk out, people walk in too. And so, and if people who voluntarily joined the party, voluntarily leave, there is nothing you can do about it. The reality on ground is that they have left. And so it is left for those of us who remain with the party to pick up the pieces and move on.

Won’t be joining the opposition coalition platform, the ADC, which some people say could be used as a vehicle to fight the ruling party?

Well, that is what members of the ADC will tell you, that they have come together for more shares of work, more shares of all parts of Nigeria, to come together from all parts of backgrounds, to come together to fight the ruling party. And if you recall, I’d said, look, I don’t subscribe to the politics of gang-ups. I don’t subscribe to all these shenanigans about, we want to fight this; we want to fight that. All of us here are Nigerians, and the things that are happening in Nigeria today are happening in our faces.

And so, if something is going wrong in Nigeria, in a democracy, there are two options. Either we put our heads together, try to constructively engage the ruling party, to right the wrongs, and rebuild this country, and make it great again. Or, you move to a different platform, to say, okay, we want to see how we can wrest power from the ruling party. Those who have gone to the ADC have chosen the latter option, of picking a platform to wrest power from the ruling party. How far they can go is all for conjecture.

So you’re not joining them?

I’m not joining them.

As a David Mark and Atiku ally, whose associates are moving in ADC’s direction, won’t they also expect you to gravitate towards that direction?

But the reality on ground is that I’m not following. That is the truth about the matter. I’m comfortable in PDP. I have no reason to leave PDP now or in the near future. Those who have left PDP have their reasons for leaving. And no matter what people say, PDP is in crisis, there is division in PDP, therefore, they are leaving, and the rest of them, fine. If there is division and crisis in PDP, leaders of PDP should stay in PDP to fix it. Some of these leaders may be responsible for even the problems in the party.

Atiku cited a lack of ideological clarity and takeover of party structures by moneybags. Those are his reasons for his exit. Is there merit to his claim?

Let me tell you this for free. I don’t like talking about personalities, and I don’t like talking down on elders. People, who have been in PDP up to this point, complain about lack of ideological clarity. That makes a statement even about themselves. We have been here, all of us in PDP, up to this point. If you want to leave PDP for personal reasons, you can confidently walk away, but not to give insinuations that are not realistic. What is the ideological clarity in ADC? And don’t forget, people are already complaining in ADC that, look, we have our party. We knew where we were going, and some persons have come all of a sudden and taken over the structures of the party without following due process, without following the constitution of the party. That is a story for another day.

But I agree with you completely that there are crashes in PDP. But those who have left have their reasons for leaving. Those of us who are staying behind will rebuild the party. If you talk about a former Senate president, David Mark, who is now with the ADC, we still have two Senate presidents in the PDP. President Bukola Saraki, who is leading the reconciliation process, is still very much around. The party still has serving and ex-governors in its fold. They are not walking away.

Are some of them one step in, one step out?

Well, you are just assuming. It’s mere speculation. One step away, one step in. I mean, it doesn’t sound realistic to me.

For instance, a former governor of Benue State, Gabriel Suswam was at the ADC meeting, yet in PDP.

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Gabriel Suswam has been complaining about everything in PDP for a long time, from leadership to congresses and the rest of them. We had congresses in Bene State, and some of them lost out, and then they want to bring the roof down. Honestly, like I said, I don’t want to talk about personalities, because what are some of these people bringing to the table? If you contest an election on the platform of PDP, you lose, save from a zone. The House of Representatives lost everything. The House of Assembly lost everything.  And then, you have the audacity to complain about that platform.

Samuel Ortom, former governor of Benue, also complained about the some forces within the party. And now that they are leaving, what do you make of that? Sometimes, you think that some of these exits are good riddance to bad rubbish, because some of these people, I can tell you today, may have been responsible for the crisis that we have in PDP today.

Both the party’s vice presidential and the presidential candidates in the 2023 election have left the party. And they gave reasons for lack of ideological clarity, lack of cohesion, lack of leadership and all the rest of them. Isn’t that correct?

These are issues that ordinarily I would not want to talk about, because these are people that have come a long way in politics, these are elder statesmen, and like I said, they had better say they are leaving PDP for personal reasons, and not to give flimsy excuses.

Are you able to douse the tension and quench the fire? For example, in Osun State now, the story that Governor Ademola Adeleke is exiting from the PDP is getting stronger by the day. What’s your reaction?

Are you able to assist the party to quench the fire? So, let me tell you something. A time of crisis is a time for speculation. A time of crisis is a time to spread falsehood.

You know too well that I occupy a position in the PDP that has given me the opportunity of seeing from both sides of the coin. And I can tell you today, mark my word, everything about Adeleke leaving PDP to go to another party and the rest of them are mere speculations. I can tell you, as at this moment that I am talking to you, there is no story before me to indicate that Adeleke and members of his group in Osun State are leaving the PDP.

But, two senators and many other loyalists of the governor in Osun have decamped, yet you claimed that Adeleke is not leaving the PDP?

Many are leaving on the excuse of a crisis in the party, but we know that they are leaving the PDP for fear of their future. They are afraid of survival. They think that if they remain in PDP, this present administration has the capacity to derail their elections, to ensure that they do not win elections and the rest of them. But they forget. Who made them senators today? Who made them governors today? Who made them House of Representatives members today? The electorate! And, I have said it consistently. Majority of the electorates that are members of PDP or sympathizers of PDP, are still there. And they will determine who becomes what in the next election. I’m afraid for them. Let those people not jump from the frying pan to the fire.

Some analysts are saying that Adeleke’s bid of getting a re-election is assured if he moves into the APC. Can that be correct?

Those people speculating that Adeleke will be more assured of his re-election in APC than if he stays in PDP, have forgotten that serious members of the APC in Osun State, have said that Adeleke should not come to their party because they have enough candidates to win the governorship election in 2026. And those persons in APC were there when Adeleke fought and won his election.

Now he has become a governor. I keep telling my colleagues that the only certificate to winning re-election is good governance. And so if Adeleke continues to do those things that Osun people want, executing projects that are germane to the lives of the people, that impact on the lives of the people, I can tell you whatever platform and PDP that he is now, will give him the victory.

Since the exit of Atiku, we are hearing and seeing reports from Adamawa, Bauchi, and even in Bayelsa of prominent PDP members defecting or threatening to defect in solidarity with Atiku. Are we witnessing the beginning of a political hemorrhage for the PDP ahead of 2027?

Well, again, I am an incurable optimist. There was this day that the Board of Trustees of the PDP was re-inaugurated. And some new members were inducted. If you were a pessimist, if you had thought that PDP had died and you saw former governors, former senate president, former House of Representatives members, former House of Assembly members, and former deputy governors converged to be inducted as members of the BoT, then that exercise alone is enough to keep hope alive. And so today, you are talking about people, prominent PDP members who are in sympathy with Atiku, threatening to decamp to ADC in sympathy with Atiku? All these people that you are talking about, I suppose, were there in 2023. And you will agree with me that one of the most disastrous elections that PDP had ever got involved with was the 2023 general election. It was disastrous. It was disastrous. Especially, look at my state, for instance: out of 11 House of Representatives members, PDP won only in one constituency, Agatu, in my senatorial constituency. For the presidential election, I am the only senator on the platform of the PDP that won my election. The rest went to APC. For the presidential election, of course, APC won in Benue State. The records are there.

It is not, therefore, automatic for anybody to assume that because you have big names moving to a political party, that party will win an election. What you do with the electorate, your antecedents with the electorate and the rest of them will determine whether you win an election or not.

And I can assure you that by the time, and I said it before, by the time PDP puts all the processes that we have engaged in, caucus meeting, BoT meeting, NEC meeting, national convention, by the time we put all these processes together and PDP settles down, my party will bounce back because the people are still there. The electorates are there. The PDP is a very big brand that in every nook and cranny of Nigeria today, you will find members of the PDP. And so because people are decamping from PDP to another party or to other parties, somebody thinks that PDP is dead. No, PDP is not dead.

 PDP will spring surprises.

Will the PDP be joining forces with other parties to defeat the APC in 2027? 

Well, you know, this is a new phenomenon in Nigerian politics. And you know too well too, that it is a rare occurrence in other civilized democracies. If you look at the American system, for instance, there are so many political parties. But the two dominant political parties are the Republican Party and the Democratic Party. In the last general election, you saw what happened.  The Democratic Party is still there, working hard to bounce back. The Republican Party is holding on. And so here in Nigeria, there was nothing fantastic about losing our elections in 2023.

One of the issues that have affected your party is the North-South presidency.  In the spirit of peace and balance, which region should produce the president in 2027?

I did say from the beginning of this interview that some of the people leaving the PDP now had been responsible for the crisis in the party in the first place. In 2022/23, the PDP decided to put its best foot forward in picking Atiku Abubakar against an unwritten agreement of North-South presidency. But, it backfired. Then, we went into this crisis. And at that time, the majority of Nigerians chose a southern candidate to fulfill the unwritten convention of North-South presidency. That presidency is four years by the end of 2026. The constitution permits an individual four years of two-terms. Again, it will produce some sort of somersault, if we try to tinker with the idea of taking the presidency to the North. The reasonable thing to do is that the South should still produce the next president to complete eight years. And automatically, though unwritten, Nigerians will be looking to the North for president in 2031.